If you are citizen of an European Union member nation, you may not use this service unless you are at least 16 years old.
You already know Dokkio is an AI-powered assistant to organize & manage your digital files & messages. Very soon, Dokkio will support Outlook as well as One Drive. Check it out today!
Pai Sho players from all over the world have gathered here with one goal: to create standardized rules for Pai Sho that are intuitive and easy to understand for players of all skill levels. All visitors are welcome to explore the site and read the discussions but only members will be able to participate in the discussions or comment on the pages.
Our rule set in its current state can be found here -->Pai Sho V1_0
If you would like to participate in this effort and become a member click request access.
Site Tasks
As LG grows so does the effort required to maintain it and keep it up-to-date. We will use this section to let everyone know what kind of help we need by asking for volunteers to take on various responsibilities.
We are looking for help with these tasks
This is a list of things that need to be done but for which no one has (as yet) volunteered
Glossary Editor
We need someone to mark new terms in the active discussions and add them and their definitions to the Glossary in alphabetical order. They should start with the 31st discussion as well as any other pages modified since the 31st was created. Make sure also to look at any comments in the comment section on the bottom of each page too.
Public Ambassador
This person would be our representative on sites beyond PSP and LG. They would actively search the web for any reference to Pai Sho. They would join any fan sites and social networks in order to participate in Pai Sho related discussions there, referring them to LG for a clear set of rules or to participate in our process here. They would also create a Lotus Gambit presence on social sites that would link back to LG.
Play Testers
We need people to play test various opening ideas and game strategies, posting them on LG so they can be studied for the benefit of all members as well as Pai Sho players everywhere. Posting games can be done all at once or a move at a time. Play testers would also update the flaw pages so that areas of concern in the rules can be tracked and corrected. Currently Osuji and Cyril are the only members posting test games. More testing would help us develop the rules faster.
General Maintenance
We need someone to review all past discussions (probably using Firefox which underlines misspelled words in red) to look for spelling errors and correct them, when in doubt consulting a dictionary.
General Research
Often we have details that are half remembered from ATLA but which need verification, or at times we are looking to confirm or add minor details from other sources. We need someone willing to check up on things like this so they don't get forgotten due to active discussions taking up most of our time.
Interesting. Looks like you don't actually see any game play, but the board positions reflect something I've been thinking about. It also looks like there is a lot of fan interest in Pai Sho. I wish we had an ambassador for some of these fan sites to provide feedback to questions and so forth
Ok, this is the front page everyone sees, and I am the one in charge who just deleted our rules page (!) in the most epic of ways, I guess this is the proper place for an apology. So, you know I'm sorry and everything.
On the other hand, I did notice it wasn't really a incommodity for anyone, but Osuji will have to insert the tile and board images again and I myself had some important changes made to the page which are now lost, so it was a failure anyway.
I have luckily been keeping backup copies which prevented bigger damage (a function of pbworks that came in handy), and I will keep doing this of course. I hope we don't suffer from any bigger loss in the future.
It was NP. I just reverted the page to 1.0 rules to the last changes I made on May 11. Now this did remove all changes since then including your mysterious tag changes but those are still in the page history, so you can see what was changed and when and then make any corrections you might feel you need, (like the Blue Highlighting is back on the 1.0 pages and need to be removed again. Sorry).
Hello all! I look forward to working with you to perfect the game of Pai Sho! A little about me, I'm currently a senior in college studying 3D modeling and animation and aiming to be a character artist in the video games industry. As such I've got a lot of experience with making 3d models and 2d graphics so if you all need any help on that front I'd be glad to collaborate. I've also got a fairly good knowledge of general game design so I hope to be of use in determining what rules can make the game more balanced and fun for players of all skill levels.
Another small project I'm hoping to work on is 3D printing quality board and tile sets. As fun as paper and home made sets are, I feel like Pai Sho deserves better. For about half a year now I've been looking for a project that would allow me to create a real print out of something I make on the computer and this seems fairly straightforward to do with Pai Sho. In making all the assets for the game for 3D printing I would also be able to then make demonstration and tutorial videos that we could post online that can help new players learn the game.
My goal would be to have them available here or through drop box or google drive in the original file format (probably .blend files since I use Blender) and in any other widely used formats. Most likey .obj since most 3D programs can import and export that type of file without incident.
I am ready to start a playtesting game anytime, I just have one question on the rules (not sure if this is where this goes):
Can you give disharmony to an opponents tile? ie (Red: C*3j-7j White: Ly*17j-13j (producing disharmony for the opponent)
Generally we use the chat page for questions like this but I will go ahead and answer you here. We can always move this if it gets long or complicated. In the 1.0 rules, the problem with disharmony of regular flower tiles between players is it's reciprocal. That is for you to give me disharmony you must also receive disharmony. For that reason disharmony is virtually ignored between players because it lowers the harmony score equally for both, (though it should be calculated for an accurate score). There is an exception to this, the Orchid tile gives disharmony to your opponent's tiles but not to your own.
Nice Job taking on the Glossary work! This is a task that really needs attention. Thanks for stepping up! Just in case you didn't happen to read it elsewhere I'd like to ask you follow some basic steps when you update it. First use the search window on the upper right of the page to see in what context we have been using a term from the Glossary. Often the context and usage has a slightly different meaning than what you might get from just using a dictionary. You may already be doing that, and if so I'm really pleased and impressed. If not I'm still pleased that you are taking on this task.
I agree that this is very good news. If you find at some point that the Glossary should be split up into more pages (two, or one for each letter, etc) for better clarity just speak the words and I'll do it.
Well, yeah, it would be nice to have it one page per one or two letters, but that's not really a demand. I need help transferring the current all-over-the-place format to the one suggested at the top. I really need some help, though.
I think you are doing great! Sorry about the formatting. I wrote the spec for glossary layout but didn't have time implement it. It took me weeks to get all the pages reviewed and the words uploaded. and that was like 10 discussions ago, so there are probably things that need to be added from the more recent pages. Then there are things I included as I thought of them without having ever used them in any discussion. The thing is nobody expects you to build Rome in a day here. Doing a little bit at a time is actually very helpful.
Good question... I doubt there are pages outside LG that explain Pai Sho terms like we use them here, but if necessary you can of course add links to external pages as well (Wikipedia etc).
Welcome aboard Nlc11! Thanks for all your effort on the glossary. Great progress! One suggestion relative to your efforts and question below is to always use the search window on our site to look for our usage of a term. Often we have some additional Pai Sho related spin that goes beyond the common usage. I wouldn't think there isn't a need to link to internal pages unless a page was dedicated to a specific term from the glossary, or maybe if it deals with it at some length. External links should be used to reference definitive sources of information. Like for Go principles I often reference Sensei's Library, and for chess variants I often reference another page I think it's called "chess variants" etc. But I would expect most entries would need no link at all. References to other Pai Sho variants should probably give a link to their respective pages to properly attribute those works. Anyway those are my thoughts on using Links in the Glossary. And again our great appreciation and thanks for your help!
I know that what we are experiencing here is a very common case of the summer gap, but our lack of progress worries me. I have a free week coming up and will try to contribute a bit more. Hopefully this will stimulate our collective mind to be productive, given necessary time.
I just found a Pai Sho game made by Nickelodeon at this website: http://www.nick.com/games/legend-of-korra-pai-sho.html?apiKey=001
However, it only uses one of the seen tiles: The lotus tile. All other tiles are water, earth, fire, air, and avatar. It also doesn't use any advanced rules, but since it's been made by Nickelodeon, I still feel the need to post it here.
I can't seem to open it from where I live. Can somebody confirm this? As we know nickelodeon published a "version" of Pai Sho before, when LoK was released, but this seems to be much more interesting.
Well, first time I tried it redirected me to the Dutch homepage of Nickelodeon (I live in Holland). The only thing I can think of is retrying over and over or changing the last three numbers of the adress to another number with three digits (e.g. 000). That's the only thing I can come up with at the moment. If you can't access the webpage, there is a youtube video explaining the rules and shows some gameplay. You will find it when you search in youtube "Pai Sho", it's name was something like "PAI SHO IN REAL LIFE (Legend of Korra Pai Sho)", or something...
Yeah, I played it for a bit. Its nice, however it really doesn't implement the concept of harmonies in any way. Its kind of an adaption of chess. For example: the Avatar tile is like the queen, its all powerful (but can be captured staying true to Avatar). Or the white lotus is like the king, enemy tiles can't be adjacent, it can be put in check, and winning or losing the game hinges on it.
I got on and played with it a bit. it reminds me heavily of chinese checkers, but has capture. The goal of getting the lotus to the center,however, contradicts cannon (Iroh's first move in The Desert would have been a win). File it under an interesting enough variant though.
Well, seeing that there are some members frequently only at the moment, I suggest we start picking up our older IM habits again. As you know, every member should have an AIM account, and more importantly, have the AIM client installed on his computer. Nlc11 and PsProg, als well as Mag, please do so if you haven't already, and we can try to discuss in real time, which generally works pretty well.
A quick info for everyone: One of our newer members, Nikpie, will play a practice game with me based on the current ruleset. This will take place in roll20 and you are all invited to join and spectate. The time of playing will be during the coming weekend, probably on Saturday 25th around 5 p.m. UTC (thats Saturday midday for eastern US, Saturday in the morning for western US, and Saturday in the evening for Europe); more precise dates follow. I'd be pleased if there were spectators. It's much more fun and at times very informative for everone.
Seeing the recent hiatus our project is experiencing, I'd like to mention again that I am available for online games. I have lots of time on my hands at the moment and will take every opportunity to play quick (or not so quick) matches. Any ruleset; just contact me and speak the words.
@Kylemax, our newest member: I'm pleased to hear you're interested in the ruleset. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me here. I wanted to send you a welcome email, but it said your address isn't correct. I don't know what the problem might be, but I hope you enjoy the ruleset. Cy
You don't have permission to comment on this page.
Comments (Show all 103)
Frank said
at 9:57 pm on Mar 29, 2012
Just solid colors.
Yi Chen said
at 2:07 pm on Apr 30, 2012
Pai Sho seen in the new show
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/pai+sho
Yi Chen said
at 2:33 pm on Apr 30, 2012
http://intelligenthebetude.tumblr.com/post/21940724886/pai-sho-pai-sho-pai-sho-pai-sho-pai-sho-pai-sho
Osuji said
at 2:50 am on May 1, 2012
Interesting. Looks like you don't actually see any game play, but the board positions reflect something I've been thinking about. It also looks like there is a lot of fan interest in Pai Sho. I wish we had an ambassador for some of these fan sites to provide feedback to questions and so forth
Cyril said
at 7:19 pm on May 21, 2012
Ok, this is the front page everyone sees, and I am the one in charge who just deleted our rules page (!) in the most epic of ways, I guess this is the proper place for an apology. So, you know I'm sorry and everything.
On the other hand, I did notice it wasn't really a incommodity for anyone, but Osuji will have to insert the tile and board images again and I myself had some important changes made to the page which are now lost, so it was a failure anyway.
I have luckily been keeping backup copies which prevented bigger damage (a function of pbworks that came in handy), and I will keep doing this of course. I hope we don't suffer from any bigger loss in the future.
Osuji said
at 12:35 am on May 22, 2012
It was NP. I just reverted the page to 1.0 rules to the last changes I made on May 11. Now this did remove all changes since then including your mysterious tag changes but those are still in the page history, so you can see what was changed and when and then make any corrections you might feel you need, (like the Blue Highlighting is back on the 1.0 pages and need to be removed again. Sorry).
darkmag07 said
at 11:27 pm on Jun 10, 2012
Hello all! I look forward to working with you to perfect the game of Pai Sho! A little about me, I'm currently a senior in college studying 3D modeling and animation and aiming to be a character artist in the video games industry. As such I've got a lot of experience with making 3d models and 2d graphics so if you all need any help on that front I'd be glad to collaborate. I've also got a fairly good knowledge of general game design so I hope to be of use in determining what rules can make the game more balanced and fun for players of all skill levels.
Another small project I'm hoping to work on is 3D printing quality board and tile sets. As fun as paper and home made sets are, I feel like Pai Sho deserves better. For about half a year now I've been looking for a project that would allow me to create a real print out of something I make on the computer and this seems fairly straightforward to do with Pai Sho. In making all the assets for the game for 3D printing I would also be able to then make demonstration and tutorial videos that we could post online that can help new players learn the game.
Ruirize said
at 12:13 am on Jun 11, 2012
Can you export models using the .obj format?
darkmag07 said
at 12:27 am on Jun 11, 2012
Yes, that's pretty standard for 3D models.
My goal would be to have them available here or through drop box or google drive in the original file format (probably .blend files since I use Blender) and in any other widely used formats. Most likey .obj since most 3D programs can import and export that type of file without incident.
darkmag07 said
at 12:23 am on Jun 11, 2012
Yes.
Riani said
at 11:59 pm on Jul 16, 2012
I am ready to start a playtesting game anytime, I just have one question on the rules (not sure if this is where this goes):
Can you give disharmony to an opponents tile? ie (Red: C*3j-7j White: Ly*17j-13j (producing disharmony for the opponent)
Osuji said
at 1:42 pm on Jul 17, 2012
Generally we use the chat page for questions like this but I will go ahead and answer you here. We can always move this if it gets long or complicated. In the 1.0 rules, the problem with disharmony of regular flower tiles between players is it's reciprocal. That is for you to give me disharmony you must also receive disharmony. For that reason disharmony is virtually ignored between players because it lowers the harmony score equally for both, (though it should be calculated for an accurate score). There is an exception to this, the Orchid tile gives disharmony to your opponent's tiles but not to your own.
Tristan Smith said
at 5:32 pm on Jul 18, 2012
thanks for accepting me into the group, i will review everything going here to see exactly where and how i can help. Thanks go to osuji and cyril!
Cyril said
at 5:51 pm on Jul 18, 2012
Good to hear that. I look forward to your work, and maybe chatting with you in the future. Don't forget to consider downloading the AIM client.
PS-Prog said
at 7:58 pm on Sep 2, 2012
Hello, i am new and want to help.
I am programming a pai sho game without solid rules. This means it's a testing program with modifyable rules.
I am still in progress but you will hear of me.
(By the way, i have also a dvd-box of avatar the last airbender at home, if you need information)
Cyril said
at 6:22 am on Sep 3, 2012
That is very good to hear. Welcome onboard.
The White Lotus said
at 10:23 pm on Jan 24, 2013
I can help play test, and occasionally do some general maintenance and glossary editing. I want to test out some openings I thought of.
Osuji said
at 12:27 am on Jan 25, 2013
Nice Job taking on the Glossary work! This is a task that really needs attention. Thanks for stepping up! Just in case you didn't happen to read it elsewhere I'd like to ask you follow some basic steps when you update it. First use the search window on the upper right of the page to see in what context we have been using a term from the Glossary. Often the context and usage has a slightly different meaning than what you might get from just using a dictionary. You may already be doing that, and if so I'm really pleased and impressed. If not I'm still pleased that you are taking on this task.
The White Lotus said
at 2:00 am on Jan 25, 2013
Yeah, I just noticed... well... A LOT of word I probably could define. If you want to change something, go ahead and do so.
Cyril said
at 4:36 pm on Jan 25, 2013
I agree that this is very good news. If you find at some point that the Glossary should be split up into more pages (two, or one for each letter, etc) for better clarity just speak the words and I'll do it.
The White Lotus said
at 11:17 pm on Jan 25, 2013
Well, yeah, it would be nice to have it one page per one or two letters, but that's not really a demand. I need help transferring the current all-over-the-place format to the one suggested at the top. I really need some help, though.
Osuji said
at 10:56 pm on Jan 27, 2013
I think you are doing great! Sorry about the formatting. I wrote the spec for glossary layout but didn't have time implement it. It took me weeks to get all the pages reviewed and the words uploaded. and that was like 10 discussions ago, so there are probably things that need to be added from the more recent pages. Then there are things I included as I thought of them without having ever used them in any discussion. The thing is nobody expects you to build Rome in a day here. Doing a little bit at a time is actually very helpful.
Nlc11 said
at 5:48 pm on Jul 24, 2013
Can I work on the glossary? I think that I would be good at it.
Cyril said
at 6:22 pm on Jul 24, 2013
Of course you can, we're happy. Feel free to edit the glossary page and add recent terms. Sovereignty or reciprocity come to mind...
Nlc11 said
at 6:23 pm on Jul 24, 2013
Thanks, also 1 question; when it says links to related pages, does that include internale pages only or pages outside of LG?
Cyril said
at 7:30 pm on Jul 24, 2013
Good question... I doubt there are pages outside LG that explain Pai Sho terms like we use them here, but if necessary you can of course add links to external pages as well (Wikipedia etc).
Osuji said
at 2:05 pm on Jul 26, 2013
Welcome aboard Nlc11! Thanks for all your effort on the glossary. Great progress! One suggestion relative to your efforts and question below is to always use the search window on our site to look for our usage of a term. Often we have some additional Pai Sho related spin that goes beyond the common usage. I wouldn't think there isn't a need to link to internal pages unless a page was dedicated to a specific term from the glossary, or maybe if it deals with it at some length. External links should be used to reference definitive sources of information. Like for Go principles I often reference Sensei's Library, and for chess variants I often reference another page I think it's called "chess variants" etc. But I would expect most entries would need no link at all. References to other Pai Sho variants should probably give a link to their respective pages to properly attribute those works. Anyway those are my thoughts on using Links in the Glossary. And again our great appreciation and thanks for your help!
Cyril said
at 10:04 pm on Aug 23, 2013
I know that what we are experiencing here is a very common case of the summer gap, but our lack of progress worries me. I have a free week coming up and will try to contribute a bit more. Hopefully this will stimulate our collective mind to be productive, given necessary time.
Osuji said
at 11:15 pm on Aug 23, 2013
Several other projects and obligations have been consuming my time. I do watch any new content but just so busy lately. Sorry.
PS-Prog said
at 9:51 am on Sep 7, 2013
I just found a Pai Sho game made by Nickelodeon at this website: http://www.nick.com/games/legend-of-korra-pai-sho.html?apiKey=001
However, it only uses one of the seen tiles: The lotus tile. All other tiles are water, earth, fire, air, and avatar. It also doesn't use any advanced rules, but since it's been made by Nickelodeon, I still feel the need to post it here.
Cyril said
at 1:49 pm on Sep 7, 2013
I can't seem to open it from where I live. Can somebody confirm this? As we know nickelodeon published a "version" of Pai Sho before, when LoK was released, but this seems to be much more interesting.
PS-Prog said
at 5:42 pm on Sep 7, 2013
Well, first time I tried it redirected me to the Dutch homepage of Nickelodeon (I live in Holland). The only thing I can think of is retrying over and over or changing the last three numbers of the adress to another number with three digits (e.g. 000). That's the only thing I can come up with at the moment. If you can't access the webpage, there is a youtube video explaining the rules and shows some gameplay. You will find it when you search in youtube "Pai Sho", it's name was something like "PAI SHO IN REAL LIFE (Legend of Korra Pai Sho)", or something...
Inferno_Master said
at 10:59 pm on Sep 10, 2014
Yeah, I played it for a bit. Its nice, however it really doesn't implement the concept of harmonies in any way. Its kind of an adaption of chess. For example: the Avatar tile is like the queen, its all powerful (but can be captured staying true to Avatar). Or the white lotus is like the king, enemy tiles can't be adjacent, it can be put in check, and winning or losing the game hinges on it.
Riani said
at 7:42 pm on Sep 7, 2013
I got on and played with it a bit. it reminds me heavily of chinese checkers, but has capture. The goal of getting the lotus to the center,however, contradicts cannon (Iroh's first move in The Desert would have been a win). File it under an interesting enough variant though.
Cyril said
at 8:09 pm on Sep 7, 2013
Well, what did we expect. We shouldn't base our rules on a variant like that anyway, too little effort went into it.
Cyril said
at 8:33 am on Aug 3, 2014
Well, seeing that there are some members frequently only at the moment, I suggest we start picking up our older IM habits again. As you know, every member should have an AIM account, and more importantly, have the AIM client installed on his computer. Nlc11 and PsProg, als well as Mag, please do so if you haven't already, and we can try to discuss in real time, which generally works pretty well.
Inferno_Master said
at 11:25 pm on Sep 10, 2014
I think its referencing the game on Nick
Cyril said
at 9:34 pm on Oct 19, 2014
A quick info for everyone: One of our newer members, Nikpie, will play a practice game with me based on the current ruleset. This will take place in roll20 and you are all invited to join and spectate. The time of playing will be during the coming weekend, probably on Saturday 25th around 5 p.m. UTC (thats Saturday midday for eastern US, Saturday in the morning for western US, and Saturday in the evening for Europe); more precise dates follow. I'd be pleased if there were spectators. It's much more fun and at times very informative for everone.
Cyril said
at 11:53 am on Feb 1, 2015
Seeing the recent hiatus our project is experiencing, I'd like to mention again that I am available for online games. I have lots of time on my hands at the moment and will take every opportunity to play quick (or not so quick) matches. Any ruleset; just contact me and speak the words.
Cyril said
at 11:07 pm on May 22, 2017
@Kylemax, our newest member: I'm pleased to hear you're interested in the ruleset. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me here. I wanted to send you a welcome email, but it said your address isn't correct. I don't know what the problem might be, but I hope you enjoy the ruleset. Cy
You don't have permission to comment on this page.